BONUS Episode: How Do I Know It’s God’s Voice? with Rachel Grohl

Jen: Hey friends, it's Jen, and welcome to this bonus episode here on Good God Talks. We're in a unique podcast format today because I've invited a friend, Rachel Grohl, to come on the show. She is an author, a certified life coach, a missionary, and a podcaster who loves sharing Jesus. And she has served in ministry in a variety of ways, both locally and globally.
And so I invited her to be interviewed on the podcast to talk about talking with God and her latest book, which is Knowing God's Voice, what Female Prophets of the Bible teach us about recognizing, trusting, and obeying God. I'm sure just by that title you can tell why I wanted to have her on Good God talks.
And so let's jump into that conversation.

Jen: Rachel, I am so grateful to know you. For any friends who are listening in and don't know you yet would you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah. Well, Jen, thank you so much for having me. It's always a joy to. Spend a little bit of time talking with you, and especially when we're talking about some of our favorite things.

Rachel: That's always so fun. My name is Rachel Grohl and I am a lot of things to a lot of different people. I have been in ministry for a long time, both international ministry, local ministry, orphan care, spiritual care, all of the things. And I think at the heart of all of that, there's always been a calling for evangelism and discipleship, and that assignment has looked different over the years.

You know, sometimes it's looked like children's ministry. Now it looks like women's ministry most of the time, podcasting, speaking, writing. I think my goal in all of that is to help people really know who Jesus is, not just know about him, but really know him. And so this new book has no exception. Right now my schedule looks a lot like being alone in my room while I'm podcasting and writing and, and trusting the Lord with that message.

I feel like over the years that has. Kind of evolved. You know, I'm a mom of three girls and I'm at that like revolving door stage of parenting where my ones that is at home is constantly on the go because of friends and all those kinds of things. And then my older two are in and out with whatever the Lord has them doing.

And so my husband and I are just kind of along for the ride, learning and growing as we're called into this new stage of parenting adults. It feels radically different than parenting young ones. So that's kind of where we're at right now. Your family sounds very missional to me, even in our own conversations, just the heart of ministering to the world, the father's heart has been something that you've caught. Your husband is caught, and then you're able to share with your kids, which I think is really beautiful. Yeah. You know, that's a testimony to the Lord's faithfulness because it's, it's so funny. My middle daughter right now is out traipsing the world on the world race with adventures and missions, and she talks a lot. She's in this stage now about talking about obedience.
And out of all the kids, she's the one that kind of struggled the most with that over her lifetime. And so that kid has been so bathed in prayer. I mean, of course all three of our kids have, but if anybody is gonna change a world, it's gonna be Addie, you know, out of, out of our three kids.

And so she's, I would love prayer for her. She's in Eastern Europe right now, and she'll be there through the end of the year and then she'll be in South America. And so they're visiting lots of different countries, sharing the Gospel, and she's kind of learning on her own what that looks like away from mom and dad, which is a whole different stage of becoming an adult. And so we're just thankful for the what the Lord is doing in and through her as well.

Jen: Well, and you yourself have done ministry all over the world. Can you talk a little bit about that and going into your book, your most recent book, knowing God's Voice one of the things that you mention is that you've seen similar insecurities about hearing God's voice even in different countries and locations. I'd love to kinda piggyback both those questions together to share about your experiences.

Rachel: Yeah. You know, I have served in a lot of different capacities in the local church. I worked as a children's pastor and then an outreach [00:04:00] pastor and admissions pastor. I worked as the director of spiritual care for an international organization that worked in five different countries.

I've done missions and led mission trips. All over the country. So the thing that was interesting to me over probably the last 10 years is I, I've seen firsthand from talking and being in relationship with women that it didn't really matter if I was talking to somebody on a street corner in Brooklyn or in the back of a cornfield in Pennsylvania or in the Bush in Africa, somewhere, women seem to share this insecurity around how do I know? How do I know that this is God's voice? And how do I know it's not just my own voice? How do I know it's not the voice of the enemy even? And what do I do with it? And I think that is some of the same questions that I've had myself over the years, you know, especially as a younger believer.

And I really wanted to create a resource for women that it wasn't just teaching them about the women in scripture, but it also could be used as a resource to help them kind of bridge that gap. Like, I don't wanna just know about God, I wanna really know him, and what does that practically look like in my own life, regardless if I'm a CEO or I'm a stay-at-home mom. What are some of those principles that we can take into our own lives and what can we learn from those women? And so that's really the heart behind the book. one of the things that you and I could probably talk about for days and days on end is hearing God's voice and getting to go through daily life with him. And we all have our own journeys of getting to, to learn that that's available to us, and learning how to walk in that.

Jen: How did that start for you when you, you started to realize, oh, I can hear God's voice, I can go through daily life with him.

Rachel: I got saved at 15 and I was in a church that really didn't talk about the Holy Spirit at all. I mean, there might have been a mention in scripture if we're reading through a passage of scripture. It referred to. The Trinity. That was pretty much it.
There was never any teaching on who Holy Spirit was or the practicality of being empowered or filled by the Holy Spirit or anything like that. And so for me, that really became something new for me when I started going to a more charismatic church that kind of had its roots in Pentecostalism but was more conservative in that area, but really had some really good mentors that had walked with the Lord for a really long time that were patient and kind and taught me There's more, there's always more to the Holy Spirit.

I owned a daycare at the time and I was in a place of desperation to, to the point where, and I'm sure everybody has had those kinds of moments in our lives where there's not enough money to get the things done that we need to get done. And I was already working like 70, 80 hours a week. There wasn't an option for me to get another job. I was just kind of up against the wall. And I remember kind of at this final moment of desperation, praying about this scenario. And we live in Pennsylvania and the roads are, and the salt on the roads and everything in the winter are really rough.

And it had this hole that was, I mean, probably four or five feet deep in front of my daycare. And it was right where the parents would come and drop the kids off. And I didn't know what to do because I didn't have the money to repair that. I didn't even have money to buy gravel to fill in the hole.

There was a budget impasse at the time, so the government had shut down, so we weren't getting paid for any of our government contracts and. We had just bought a house and we're still living in the apartment and all the things, you know, perfect storm.

And I'm a pretty independent person. I'm pretty self-reliant a lot of times. And so it took a moment of desperation before I turned to the Lord and I put it up on my, my prayer board and I was like, Lord, I'm just gonna pray about this parking lot. I don't know what to do about it. I don't have the resources.
I'm already working so many hours. I can't, I can't fix this. And so it was really this moment of desperation where I trusted the Lord with it. You know, I would walk in and outta my office. I would see it, but I kind of didn't even really expect the Lord to do anything with it.

It was just like, well, when all us fails, pray. And that was really my mentality at the time until a couple days later. And the doorbell rang during nap time and it aggravated me because I had all these toddlers, I had finally gotten to sleep. And so I kind of went through the door, irritated that this guy rang the doorbell during nap time. And here he was covered head to toe in these black smudges. And essentially he was saying that he was from a paving company and he was working down the road and he saw that we had this huge hole in our parking lot and he wondered if he could come dump some extra asphalt in that hole.

To say I was shocked would be an understatement. And I of course said yes. And then I shut the door and I just. I remember just like quietly weeping, not even knowing how to articulate the words, and I walked back into my office and. Just kinda looked at that and like made eye contact with that prayer board where I just had wrote the word asphalt on that prayer board.

And I was like, Lord, like I didn't even know I could pray about asphalt. I didn't even know that that was something that I could come to him with, that he would care enough about me to see this problem that I had. And I think that really for me was that first moment of recognition where I realized that the Lord did care.

He cared deeply, and it was something so specific to me. Something that I didn't even fully a hundred percent think could ever happen where the Lord just started to show like, Rach, I see you. I see your need and I got you. And I think that was really this moment where it changed things for me in prayer, certainly where I could start to recognize that there was these areas in my life where I could come to the Lord.

And not only did he hear me, but he cared about those things. He wanted to be in that process with me, and so that kind of started me down this journey where it really flipped the script on how I lived my life after that point.

Jen: I love that you shared that story 'cause I actually had in my notes ask her about the pothole story. Because there comes moments in our lives when we get to step back and see the tangible active presence of God in ways that are practical and there are meeting needs. And I think. We often need those markers as reminders that Oh, he does care. Oh, he does see me. Oh, he does notice and wants to be involved in what I'm walking through.

I actually wanna quote you to you for a second. So bear with me here. You say that God does not change and you say on the surface, many of us would agree with that statement. And then you post some questions: Do we really live that way? Do we really live like we believe what the Bible reveals about God? Do we really live like we believe that he wants to be actively involved in our lives? I would love for you to talk to that a little bit because we see God show up for people in the Bible, but we don't always see him show up for us in the pothole moments like that. Like it's not like every prayer has a pothole answer. But he is actively involved in our lives.

Rachel: You know, I remember at that stage in my life just really floundering, you know, I was at a stage financially floundering. We had a period of about six months where the budget didn't pass. We had, you know, like I said, we bought that house. We just financially, I mean, we were, depending on the generosity of other people and coupons and government assistance to get us through. Our kids were really little. And I just was really struggling and I was in a women's group and I kind of asked for prayer halfheartedly not thinking that, you know, God even cared that I couldn't afford peanut butter even that week, you know?

And this older woman said, you know, we have to remember that when we feel like we're over our heads and we're drowning, we serve a God who parts the waters. And I think it was like an aha moment for me where I was like, oh yeah, why am I sitting here tonight at this Bible study with these women if I don't actually believe that? And I think that sort of changed things for me in my prayer life where I'm not saying every single time I've prayed something, the Lord has miraculously intervened. You know, maybe he's creatively given me idea of how I can solve the problem, or he's sent somebody else that, that has the wisdom around the situation or there's been a lot of creative ways, but sometimes.

It's about his presence in the waiting, and it's his presence in the moments that aren't easily resolved. And I think there's so much that I've learned about God and who he is in his presence in those moments, almost more so than in the moments where he's instantaneously, miraculously sent asphalt to fill out my pothole.

You know? And, and of course that sent me on this trajectory of learning how to pray for the tangible reality of God's presence and provision. But also there's a tangible reality of his presence when we're in our struggle. You know, one of the women that I talk about in this book is Anna. And the thing I love about Anna's story is she waited on the Lord for decades.
And I think, man, I, I can't even go 10 days, like without complaining. I, I don't wanna go 10 days without complaining. And yet we see her go decades waiting faithfully. And the thing I love about her story is how she worshiped in the waiting. And I often have to sit back and examine my own heart. Am I worshipful in the waiting more often than not.

I wanna complain, I wanna beg, I wanna plead before the Lord to, you know, resolve whatever it is. But yet we see Anna postured before baby Jesus because she was so faithful with the way that she waited. And that means, you know, the fact that we have to wait this side of heaven. We have to wait.
That's part of the reality of the fallen world we live in. There's an opportunity there. There's an opportunity for me to complain. And be a terrible example to my kids or have a, you know, a, a judgmental attitude or, you know, there's that opportunity or there's an opportunity to worship and trust that God, even when I have to wait, is still faithful and, and recognize that sometimes it's more about his presence than the solution of whatever I'm praying for.

Jen: Yeah, that's so encouraging and it's so applicable no matter where you are in the season, whether you're in the waiting, you're starting to see the answer. I would love for you to, to go back to the beginning for the person who's listening and saying, I want to believe that God shows up still the way that he does in the Bible, but I, I don't know that I believe that about him yet. How would you encourage them?

Rachel: Well, I think it really has to start with taking that honesty to the Lord. You know, he wants to reveal himself to us. Often he doesn't because he's waiting for us to desire that. And I think about different times in my life where I didn't even invite him into the story, I just went full steam ahead and I figured it out the Rachel way and.

I often chuckle as a parent when I see one of my kids struggling with something, I'm like, well, you just let me help you. But it's important for their independence, for them, for me to wait for them to ask. And I'm longing to help them, but I'm also waiting for them to invite me into this scenario. And I think there's a lot of times that God is like that, where he is waiting anxiously like, let me in, put me in coach.

You know, kind of kind of thing. Where I think it starts with this honest prayer of, of being honest before the Lord and saying, you know what? God, I don't know. I don't even know if you're real. Okay. Like let's be that honest with our prayers, because I think we all are at that place at some point in our lives.
I don't even know if you're real. If you are, can you reveal yourself to me? And, and that might be in prayer, that might be with a situation, it might be, you know, so many different ways because he's different and with how he interacts with each o, each of us. But I think even beyond that, we can say, okay, you know what, Lord, can you.

Reveal yourself in your word to me. You know, there's times where I'll sit down and read some, some part of scripture and he reveals it in such a new way and he embeds a verse on my heart that I've read a thousand times, but for whatever reason, I didn't understand or I didn't see it the way I did in that moment.

That's him speaking to us and I think, you know, yes, there are moments where we understand that he is speaking to us by his spirit, but. It starts with recognizing how he speaks in his word, because his word is the primary way he speaks to us. And so a lot of times when I hear those kinds of comments, I'll push people back to reading, reading the word, because if you don't know where to start.

Well, we started at the beginning. He's called the word for a reason. He gives us his word because he longs to talk to us, to be in community and communication with us. He's very intentional with how he does that. I think often the holdup, the stepping stone or that block that's there is because of us.

Jen: Mm-hmm. I relate to that. I did not understand the value of the Bible. It, for a lot of my years as a believer, it, it felt heavy. It felt like rules, it felt legalistic. I was trying to understand it with, based on my own understanding. And it just, it felt very, achiever performance space instead of this revelation of who God is and how he cares for us.

And you talk some about this in the book about how God is the hero of the story and I love that, especially in a book like yours that is, is beautifully going back to stories of women who offered prophecy in scripture who foretold and forth told communication about the Lord. And you talked about how we pattern our lives after the God of the Bible and not the people of the Bible. And I think that's such a helpful reminder. Even as we're learning about women who prophesied, like, Hey, we're learning from them, but we're not patterning our lives after them. We're patterning our lives after God. He's the hero.

So for someone who maybe hasn't thought about God that way or who can get distracted by looking at other biblical figures as the hero of the story how, how would you explain to them, how would you talk them through a way to shift their perspective?

Rachel: Well, I think anytime we are looking at scripture or even our favorite pastor that we watch on YouTube or you know, any, any Christian that we might, admire. I think there is a temptation to fall into that comparison trap. Like, oh, that's their relationship with God, and he does that in their life. But the reality is, is the Bible is full of messy broken people that God chose to use.

You know, Miriam, I love Miriam and there's so many aspects of Miriam's story that I understand, but she messed up. Royally. And so it doesn't give us permission to also mess up because well Miriam's in the Bible and if she could do it, I could do it. No. What we take away from that is that God redeemed her story, that even though she messed up, even though she wasn't perfect, he's still a redeemer and he can redeem all things, even our sin, he can use that in our own lives to bring us to a position of surrender where we come back and say, God, I need you, or I'm gonna mess this up.

And I think I in the past have been tempted to read scripture in one of two ways. Either what does this have to do with me? Like, where am I in this story? Or feeling like I couldn't measure up because I'm not gonna lead 2 million people through the desert, like Miriam, like that feels so huge that that's, that's not me.

And so there was like this inti intimidation factor, like I don't relate to those women. And yet. I can look back and sit back and look at parts of Miriam's story and understand that full well. You know, I think anybody has been around, a lot of women knows that women complain and what happens if we internalize their complaints?

Well, it takes us down this, this terrible path where she had this opportunity to steward those complaints in a different way than she did and, and what can we learn? Yeah, we can learn a lot about how she handled that. But also, let's take a step back and see where God was in that story. What was he doing?
Because we are always gonna be disappointed if we try to put all of our stock in the people of the Bible 'cause they were people besides Jesus. There really isn't any person in the Bible that, that we could say had it all together. I mean, that's kind of the whole point. That's why we need Jesus. None of us have it all together.

And God knows that that's the, the whole rescue plan he has for us is because he knows that. And so I think as we read scripture, I think it's always important to think through what is God doing? What is this revealing about who he is and how he acts? Because, you know, we face a lot of things. My youngest, she's 15 and we're parenting in this age of the digital space and, and cell phone usage. And you know, the word cell phone isn't in the scriptures, but we learn about responsible parenting and God's heart for God's people. And, and the way that we understand God's character helps us parent in a way that reveals his character to our children. And what does grace look like when our kids mess up? Well, we learn about those things from the Lord, even if our specific situation isn't named per se, in the scriptures.

Jen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. One that goes back to the reality that he is the same. Like he doesn't change. And so his, his character, his nature, his presence, he's trustworthy. Even when we go through new developments in technology or new seasons in the world.

One of the things I also really appreciated in your book is how you, you lay the foundation and you keep going back to talking about prophecy. We're talking about female prophets, but what we're really talking about at its core is hearing God's voice and responding to him. And so I do wanna talk a little bit specifically about prophecy.

And Latasha Morrison in her endorsement of you, she said that you are exploring this topic. Many believers find underemphasized or overstressed. And I was like, oh, that's a perfect way to say that, because I have been in church environments that have both where it can feel overemphasized or underemphasized.

So let's, let's lay a good foundation here. If someone's like, oh, I wanna learn about the female prophets, I wanna learn about prophecy, how do you describe it to them?

Rachel: I think in scripture what we see is, and I talk about the statistics of this, in the Old Testament specifically, 92% of the prophecy we see in scripture was reminding people of what God already said. You know, very little of it was talking about things that were gonna come down the road, whether it was the New Testament or Jesus, there is that, but the majority of it was reminding people of what God already said. And I think sometimes we complicate that because it feels intimidating, you know, over overemphasizing it.

We've all seen that. Gift be manipulated in ways that are not healthy. And I think that kind of gives us a little bit of trauma. But also Paul talks about how edifying the gift of prophecy is for the body of Christ. I've, there's been so many times where the Lord has sent somebody to give me a timely word that has meant so much to me.

You know, I remember a season where I was going through something really hard with my biological family and. You know, I come from a, a family background of abuse and I don't have a close relationship with my dad specifically. And I was really like heartbroken over a scenario that had happened and I had to go to speak to this event.

And there was this time of prayer before we're getting started and this gentleman came up and he said. The Lord calls you daughter and he wants you to know he's proud of you. And I was in such a state of brokenness that that word daughter was just something. The Lord used so much to minister to my heart, and that is such a blessing.

You know, there's been, there's been all sorts of things like that that the Lord has done in my life where he sent other believers to speak a word over me that has encouraged me and I think, or he's used me to do that for somebody else. You've done that in my life. You know, I remember just even recently, I was in a scenario and you reached out and you're like, Hey, the Lord put you on my heart and I just want you to know I'm praying for you.

And I'm like, girl, you don't even know how much I needed that today. There's so much value. That's how the body of Christ was designed to work through the power of the Holy Spirit. And so when we. Underemphasize the prophetic word or speaking out a word the Lord gives us or somebody, or denying them of the blessing of feeling seen and heard and loved by the Holy Spirit in a way that is so unique, but yet I believe is fully part of how he designed us to operate in relationship with each other.

Jen: That’s beautiful. And in tying it back into how we get to be a part of the body together, like we, we are able to bring encouragement and support to one another. And the way I have understood prophecy is it's both for telling and. Forthtelling, which is what you're talking about here. We're saying again, we're going back to who God is and we're bringing his word forth for today.

And one of the things that I, I love in that awareness is it takes away the pressure of like, oh, it has to be. Something that it's not, we're, we're not coming up with this amazing prophetic thing to tell somebody. But in our, our regular habits of hearing God speak, and by his spirit and by his gifting, he's giving us insight to share a timely word with somebody.

So. For someone who has never received what they think is a prophetic word, how would you help them recognize that in their own life, whether it's coming from somebody else or even just a word of encouragement that God's trying to share with them in a specific moment or circumstance?

Rachel: I think it kind of starts with listening. You know, I talk about that in the Miriam chapter. One of the things we see in Miriam is she was an observer. Like she watched her mom, you know, she, she paid attention. And a lot of times I know in my own life. I sometimes miss what God is doing because I'm just not paying attention. I'm so caught up busy doing my own thing that I'm not listening and that's when I have to get it in check and be like, girl, it's Sunday.

You're gonna take a rest and you're not gonna be doing, working on your agenda for the week. You're just gonna be in his presence and allow myself to just. Sit and listen. I think oftentimes we pray, you know, and it sounds so cliche, we pray with this laundry list of things that we want the Lord to do and how we want him to intervene, but so much of that relationship is allowing ourselves to just be quiet before him.

And that's hard to do. It's hard to quiet as women, especially quiet, our thoughts and our minds and our to-do lists and all of the things. But I think it really has to start with listening and, and maybe that's. Even the honest prayer of like, okay, God, I don't know if you're even listening, but I'm listening and I'm gonna sit here until I hear something from you.

And maybe it is about being in his presence more than it is about hearing a specific word. But it comes from practicing being in that posture of listening. And you know, there's a lot of times where. In my own life, I will feel the Holy Spirit interrupting me and interrupting my agenda because I'm not paying attention.

You know, I might have prayed earlier in the day like, Lord, let your agenda trump my agenda. Let your plan for me today. Be more important than my plan. And I have to pray that way because I'm busy. You know, as moms, as women, we're busy. We're wearing all the hats, we're doing all the things. I'm already thinking about what I'm gonna make for dinner.

You know, it just kind of how, how it is. And so there's a lot of times where I have to say that prayer very honestly. Like, Lord interrupt me today. I give you permission to interrupt me. And, and then I also think that obedience is part of it too. You know, sometimes I think the Lord does give us a word, but we sit with it.

We don't reach out to that friend. You know, if the moment the Lord put me on your heart, if you didn't reach out to me and be like, Hey, the Lord put you on my heart, I wouldn't, it wouldn't have been on my radar and that would've robbed me of number one, the blessing of knowing that, that the Lord put me on your heart that day, but also the confirmation that you received in the fact that I needed it in that moment, because that builds our faith. I think both ways. It's not just about the one that's receiving it, but I think it's also when you're stepping out in faith and being obedient to whatever it is you think the Lord is calling you to do.

When you get that confirmation back, it builds your face so that next time you're, it's easier to be more quick to be obedient.

Jen: Thank you for that encouragement in this conversation. You're right, it does build both of our faith like, okay, I, I think God is prompting my heart in this way. And we don't always get that immediate confirmation. We don't always know if it landed or if it was timely. And so when we do get to see that, we get those glimpses of God's intentionality and his care. It does, it edifies us. It builds us up. So for the listener who is, is like me, and I'm, I'm hearing somewhat like you in this way, that's like, oh no, but what if I get it wrong?

What, what if I text them and they don't bring confirmation, or they're like, oh, okay, whatever. Or they don't respond. Or I try sharing a, a word of encouragement with someone and it just, it doesn't land. What if I get it wrong? I think that can be paralyzing. I know for a lot of different circumstances that has been for me the fear of getting it wrong has stopped me from trying or practicing that muscle. What encouragement would you have for them?

Rachel: Well, you just said the word muscle. I, I think anytime we are growing in any area of our lives. We're not perfect at first. You know, if you go to the gym, you don't start off being able to deadlift a hundred pounds. You gotta start with a five pounds. And sometimes you do that and you drop the weight because it's too heavy for you.

You know, I think you gotta give yourself grace in and you know, of course make sure your heart is aligned with the Lord and you're sincerely seeking him. But there's like training wheels. You know, when we get on and ride a bike, we don't necessarily do it perfectly the first time. We have these training wheels for a reason, and I think it's important to.

You know, maybe even make that caveat, like I, I know for me I was in relationship with a lot of people that were safe. Like it was safe for me to say, you know what? This is what I, I'm thinking, I'm not saying it's a Lord, it might just be Rachel, but this is what I'm saying. And then when they're like, oh yeah, that's exactly what I've just been praying about. There's a confirmation there. But it was a safe enough relationship that even if I got it wrong, they would be like, you know what? I appreciate that perspective. Maybe you're not a hundred percent. Keep trying, you know, keep praying for, for more revelation. But it was a safe relationship where I could practice those things.

And so, you know, I think that is probably more safe than walking up to somebody on the street. But also I think the biblical principle of stewardship is God's not gonna just you know, throw us to the wolves. Like he gives us opportunities to grow first. You know, before I ever gave a word to somebody I didn't know, I gave a lot of words to people I did know because that's, you know, it was, I was being a good stewardship with the relationships I already had before God gave me a relationship or an opportunity to minister to anybody else. And so I would say first and foremost, like just start practicing that in your own life.

A friend of mine, a friend of ours season, she is doing a group with this book right now and she's been doing on Tuesday nights like. Putting this into practice. So they talked about the Miriam chapter, but then they had like three women in the hot seat where. She was like, okay, this woman, we're all gonna pray for her right now and we're all just gonna take a little bit of time and we're gonna pray for her.

And then after they prayed, she said, okay, well what did the Lord reveal anything to you? And she said, it was so interesting because there was like this track, it was all a little bit different, but it was all along the lines of like, one woman saw a path on the beach, but there was some clouds. And another woman saw a path through the woods, but there was like tree branches in the way.

And another woman saw walking down the road, but there was fog in the way and it was like. Everybody was kind of saying the same thing, but it was a little bit different, a little bit nuanced. And it was just this opportunity to practice within a safe environment where nobody was gonna laugh at you if you got it wrong, and nobody was gonna criticize you and judge you if you were way off base.

But it was an opportunity to not just. Be present and kind of operate in that, but also witness how other people operate within that gift in a way that is safe. I think that's kind of the very definition of discipleship. I mean, we need to be in spaces where we feel safe to operate within the gifts that God is growing in us.

Because that's the thing, it's about growth. We don't start off, you know, preaching. We have to start off. Maybe teaching our children, you know, we don't start off with a microphone in our hand. We start off maybe serving at vacation Bible school. You know, it's a progressive thing, and spiritual growth is slow.
I mean, it's not a necessarily a practice that happens overnight, but I think it's that long obedience in the same direction that gets us down the road. I agree with that. And I love even that perspective of discipleship. Even as you were talking, I'm visualizing how a father comes alongside their kid, use training wheels, so comes alongside and, and a good father helping their kid learn how to ride a bike.

And there's, oh, we're, we're tipping over and we're practicing, and I'm coaching you along the way. And even going back to earlier in this conversation, how the clearest way God speaks with us is through scripture. Mm-hmm. And so it's like, okay, Lord, what's, what's an encouraging verse? That's on your heart for somebody today, like allowing ourselves to start in those small steps.

Jen: And then the other thing that really jumped out at me from what you were describing here is the. Resilience to not give up. Like don't feel like it has to be this performance perfect check. Do I check the box or not, kind of thing. But you're, you're growing in an area of hearing God and sharing what you're hearing with somebody.

And I think finding safe spaces, finding a few safe people that you can practice with, that you can be praying for and sharing encouragement with is a really great step for someone who's wanting to grow in that. So thank you. As we close out, Rachel, I love your heart for, women, for the church, for the world.
Is there any last thoughts that you would wanna share with our listeners?

Rachel: You know, I think we just touched on it a little bit. I think my prayer for this book is that it wouldn't be finished. The moment you close it, like you finished reading the book and you put it down and you forget about it. I think really it's designed to help you.

Move into that next step with God and, and that is often done in community, whether that's your church community or your girlfriends or even your family. You know, I have three daughters. For us it might look like our around the dinner table, but really my heart would be that this would be a starting off point.

Where you started asking the question, okay, what's next? Because we know there's always more of God, this side of heaven. There's always more of him. He always wants us to grow in these gifts. And you know, even things like praying for opportunities to pray for people, you know, just, I think sometimes that's even not on our radar because we're, we got tunnel vision 'cause we gotta go to Walmart and get back and do the things.

But we started just doing that in our own family, like Lord, would you reveal somebody that needs prayer today? Like, is there somebody that you want us to, to pray over? And more often than not, he does reveal somebody that he wants us to pray for. And for my kids, that's almost become like a game like, oh mom, like I wonder if God's gonna send us somebody that needs prayer today.

And the testimonies and the way that builds your faith is so amazing. And so I think that would be my prayer for, for anybody that reads this book or even just listens to this conversation, to just keep asking God what's next? Because there's always more.

Jen: Well, Rachel, I love you. Thanks for being on this podcast.
Rachel: Thanks for sharing your heart and your book with everyone. I'll have links in the show notes where everyone can connect with you and get it. And thanks again for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jen. I appreciate it.
Jen: Friends, I hope our conversation encouraged you. I have links in the show notes for all of the places where you can connect with Rachel Grohl, including where you can get her latest book, Knowing God's Voice. Know that God longs to talk with you, and he will keep teaching you how to hear him more clearly. So keep listening, keep responding to what God says.

And as always, have a good talk.

And if you've been encouraged by this content, please share it with a friend and help them grow in their conversational relationship with God too!

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